RSP 01: Christine Livingston On The Art Of Being Happy With You.

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FULL TRANSCRIPT (transcribed by Ben Evans):

ANKUSH:

Welcome everyone. This is the first of my relationship series – the first audio session. Every session I’ll be joined by a different coach or expert in their own right with me, and today I’m very glad to have Christine Livingston on the audio with me. Christine is an executive coach, she’s a writer, she’s a speaker, she’s got a degree in psychology and she works a lot in the corporate world but today as a title gives away we were going to be talking about relationships. Hi Christine.

CHRISTINE:

Hi Kush. How are you?

ANKUSH:

I’m very well, I’m very well. In the preamble and the buildup to the call we were just having a conversation around how you do a lot of work in the corporate field but you get sought out sometimes for the relationship side of things and this is a passion of yours, could you say a little bit more about that.

CHRISTINE:

Yeah I think it is it’s fascinating I think we’re having this conversation as we said in our preamble I do feel as if I am kind of coming out of the closet a little, relationship has always been a passion of mine you know.

I mean I suppose you know we all have kind of like professional personas don’t we, have a part of us that we carry into whatever work we chose at some point in our lives and make money from, or you know, like to say we’re part of, and executive and corporate work has for me been very core for years and years, but I think in the background I’ve always had an interest, a personal interest in relationship because for many years I believe that was something that was going to allude to me personally. I actually was married and divorced at one point and I’ve been in a number of relationships that never went anywhere and so I just had this belief about myself that you know that romantic thing was just never going to be something I could crack and I became really curious about it.

Actually going back about 10-15 years now I did a lot of work to really understand how come I believed that about myself in order that I kind of changed my beliefs and changed my perspective and as I did so actually I met the person that I’ve now spent the last 8-9 years with, and am very happy with OnAnd interestingly what’s also happened over that period is that more and more people have sought me out, albeit I’ve never marketed myself as a relationship person but to talk to about relationship stuff, you know a relationship break down or you know a sense that they can’t meet the right person or all kind of things, and I very much enjoy relationship work I really, really I love it actually.

ANKUSH:

Great and I’m really grateful that you you’ve taken the time out to join us on this interview today and talk a little bit about the work that you. I mean there are a number of ways we could go with this but something that comes up for me is – What really changed you know you said that you know you have had difficulties before and now you’ve met someone. Was that coincidence, was that just chance? Was it something that you feel changed in yourself or in your life that has brought that about?

CHRISTINE:

Well I mean obviously this preceded any of my work with the three principles but I actually went and did some psychotherapy on it and I actually was in psychotherapy for a good number of years and things came to a head for me when I had just like one thing one particular thing happened with one guy I had been really in love with who just disappeared off the face of my earth unexpectedly and it was just the end I just kind of went to my therapist and said “That’s it. I’m done.

I’m done having crappy relationships. I’ve just really got to understand.” And he asked me this brilliant question which was “What is it about every person you’ve ever been in a relationship with that was there from the beginning but you’ve never seen?” and I had to really kind of think about it but one of the things that really occurred to me was that the people I got involved with had never ever been committed to me and of course I could have made that about them but then I kind of ultimately asked myself some questions about how committed I was to myself and I kind of came to this realization that if I wanted to be in good relationship with another person I had to be in good relationship with myself.

You know if I was looking for commitment from somebody else I had to fundamentally commit to myself. So I then really ask myself what that would mean. You know I’m a kind of great believer of the whole principle of integrity that you know you are your word and you know here was me saying that I wanted commitment and actually when I reviewed my life and how I was behaving toward myself at that point, I was not acting in a committed way to myself.

I wasn’t particularly looking after my health, my wellbeing and as soon as I started to clean up my act about my relationship with myself, how I started to feel about myself in relationships shifted. So I stopped actually needing somebody else to make me ok or to confirm that I was of value because increasingly I was giving that experience to myself and therefore when Steve the guy I am now with appeared, it turned out I’d kind of known him for actually over a year at that point, it was clear he was going to become a romantic partner.

It had just never occurred to me to need him and what happened was we developed this really beautiful friendship and a kind of a really good feeling without there having to be this pressure to make it into an anything and we both came to this point of going oh my God, you know it’s just but so I really went through quite a deliberate process of understanding how I was being in relation to myself and that’s what shifted.

ANKUSH:

Thanks that’s really quite powerful and I was reflecting on that and on some of the conversations I have with clients which is just people I meet around relationship and I think well what I heard you point to and so many and I know I’ve done this in the past, looked to feel better through someone else. And actually what I heard was when you shifted to move the focus away from other people to make you feel a certain way but actually focusing on yourself that seemed to change

CHRISTINE:

It did it shifted everything and therefore when a relationship appeared it was kind of like the icing on the cake it wasn’t something that I needed it wasn’t… there was no story about how it was or wasn’t fulfilling me it was simply something that was enriching my life and that was really quite magical. In the beginning I couldn’t quite believe how powerful it was to have kind of created that sort of space.

ANKUSH:

I can feel the energy as you talk about that. Is there anything that you see now differently than you saw before that you see in clients or people at work with you that you would love to get across to the listeners of this short audio in terms of what they could take and perhaps implement in their life, if they are looking to improve their relationship.

CHRISTINE:

Well I think I think the point is stop looking for a commitment outside and start actually first and foremost being committed to yourself, your own happiness, your own well being, that’s kind of like step one, you know, before you join any dating site before you go out and try and meet anybody you know it’s really about looking after yourself and being committed to yourself.

And I think thereafter if you start to meet people there are a number of things… in a lot of my work I come across men and women who for whatever reason find it quite difficult to be with the person they’re actually with so they kind of invent an image of the person they imagine this other person to be and they try to course correct them when they don’t quite fit the image so there’s something for me about really taking time and understanding the person that you’re beginning to create some kind of liaison with, warts and all, and love the good with the bad, love everything about them.

Love for me isn’t a feeling it’s an action, you know it’s a decision that you’re kind of going to extend a part of yourself towards another person and that means good and bad. It’s not about, you know, liking this part of them that takes you out for dinner and buys you presents and then not liking this other part of them that leaves their shirts on the floor or what have you.

It’s about knowing that’s all of them and love the part of them that leaves their shirt, you know make a joke of it make it funny just see it as part of them and then it’s really I think about how you say it’s about like some of what we learn in coaching, there something about how can I serve the other?

Not what is this other person going to do for me, but how can I be fully present in this relationship, how can I keep turning up and keep serving this beautiful other person, who has somehow coalesced in my life, because that’s I think when you make a really, really rich relationship you know it’s not something that you’ve created out of mythology, it’s something that’s actually real and present and three or four dimensional. Does that make any sense?

ANKUSH:

Yeah absolutely and I really love the word you use there which was serve and that’s been something that’s being really powerful for me. Both within my coaching and also in my personal relationships, Because what I hear differently, and maybe this is just me, but what I hear differently for me in the word serve, it doesn’t mean being nice

CHRISTINE:

Absolutely, absolutely.

ANKUSH:

For me serving means doing what is best for the other person and that could be getting uncomfortable, that could be telling them something that you want to tell them, but you’re like ‘oh no, they might not like it’, but you know it’s in their best interests. And I found totally that when I switch my mindset to one of service whether it’s in coaching or outside of coaching it always results in a in a better outcome.

CHRISTINE:

It’s fascinating you know I have some conversations with clients around this exact thing and you know they may say to me they see this about their partner or that about their partner and I say, ‘have you told them?’ and they say ‘no, I can’t’, so I say ‘well why not?’ ‘Well, they might get pissed off with me, they might get really angry, they might leave me…’ I say ‘yeah, they might, but actually don’t you think it’s the most loving thing you can do?

To be that honest and let them feel that’s where you’re coming from, a place of loving them so much that you are going to risk upsetting them in order that they really hear something from you?’ And I think people find that quite tough, they get so hooked into this ‘oh, but what if they leave me?’ Well if they do that might be the right answer, you know. But yes, serving and loving are not necessarily soft options.

ANKUSH:

I love what you just said there and for me it really touches on openness and vulnerability as well, and I find the more open and vulnerable I become in all of my relationships the better relationship the better connection I have and that totally leads into the serving and I find it very connected. But it is something that can be quite difficult to do and it’s is not, something from my view, something I was taught or thought when I was younger. It’s always like ‘present your best self’, and then afterwards ‘oh, by the way there’s this side of me I didn’t tell you about’.

CHRISTINE:

Exactly, exactly and I like what you said there about vulnerability because I think you know that needs to work both ways, you know we need to be open too to the prospect that our partner’s going to be so loving toward us that sometimes they may say or do things that feel painful or shocking or wounding to us. And actually to have the courage to sit and listen to it. And not kind of, you know, strop off in a tantrum or act out or imagine the relationship is over or say ‘how dare you!’ There’s something about really sitting and listening and being with some of those things because I think it’s in those moments that actually the connection deepens and deepens and so you know that that’s my sense of things.

ANKUSH:

What would you advise someone or what would you say to someone who’s perhaps listening to what we’re saying – it sounds good but they’re not used to operating this way. What steps could they take to be more vulnerable, to be more open, to start serving either a current partner or in terms of finding someone new?

CHRISTINE:

I think the first thing is really just to allow that what we’re talking about here is a little bit unconventional, it’s quite orthodox, it’s not what people get taught about romantic relationships at all. But for me that’s okay. I think there’s something about just allowing oneself to be open to the possibility that the way we get taught is not necessarily the way that it is actually going to work for you. And I think in terms of kind of opening oneself to being vulnerable, start small, you know start in baby steps really. Try to give feedback on something that’s a little mundane before you can actually say something that is kind of life threatening or, you know, it’s just kind of like an experiment, test it out.

ANKUSH:

I love that because you’re right there are no…well, that I found, there’s no step-by-step guide and every relationship is different. Every person is different. I guess I found for me that, you’re right, it’s about taking a step and perhaps sharing something that’s a little bit vulnerable. That you could get shot down for. But I found over the years that the more vulnerable I am, the more open I am, the better connection I have with people.

At first they kind of look at me like ‘wow, you’re quite an open person.’ And I say ‘yeah.’ ‘Oh, well I’m not very open,’ but slowly, slowly, I, you know, and this doesn’t just apply to romantic relationships but, you know, just friends telling me stuff over the years, ‘oh wow, I’ve never told anyone that before.’ ‘How did you do that?’ And I don’t do anything, but I found that just by being quite open and being vulnerable through practice, that’s happened, and there’s always more to go through and I’m finding in the last couple of weeks there’s another level of openness and vulnerability I could still go to. And this is not a one off it is an ever evolving, deepening, if that makes any sense…

CHRISTINE:

No, perfectly. I think being prepared to take risks on one’s own behalf and on behalf of the other person is important too. And sometimes just, you know, I’m not sure if I’m allowed to swear on the interview, just actually shutting the fuck up and listening from time to time is all that’s needed too, just be present, just practice being quiet.

ANKUSH:

Yeah that’s another great point. For me what I what I found is that if I’m really annoyed, pissed off, upset, angry you know in any kind of relationship whether it’s with a colleague at work or with my family, a friend or anyone, that’s normally the time where I need to slow down, need to be quiet, need to reflect.

And you know there’ve been times when I’ve just thought right now I’m not in a great headspace – and let me just sleep on it – and I’ve slept on it and I’ll wake up in the morning and it’s amazing how sometimes just a good night’s sleep can just give us a totally different view of the same person, the same situation. And in fact like you say this is very unorthodox and conventional but if I can’t see the good in someone, if I can’t see you know where they’re coming from.

If I’m really thinking that they’re acting out of order and I’m not happy about it, I know that there’s something in that for me to learn there is something to slow down. And if anything of all the things I have learned that was probably the most powerful. And actually the biggest thing that changed my relationships. I don’t know if that’s been the same for you, or your thoughts on that.

CHRISTINE:

I think this is a really good point. I mean it does actually bring in our mutual understanding about the three principles and the role of thought in the whole equation, you know, because I think in relationship we sometimes can get so in our heads about something that’s going on.

Maybe something that the other person did, something that they said, something that they didn’t do whatever it is you know we can get really worked up about it and start inventing stories about what is actually going on and the danger is that we then begin acting from the place of their stories and not from what has originally actually been said or what’s ‘true’ in this situation and sometimes actually disengaging, stepping away or if you say, you know, sleeping on it. Having a good night’s sleep and seeing it from the perspective of the next morning, can just you know dispel all of that mythology that we’ve created for ourselves.

ANKUSH:

I’m aware we’ve mentioned the three principles a couple of times and not explain them I think just briefly for those people listening I won’t cover them in a huge amount of detail but the basis of the three principles that Christine is mentioning are the three principles of mind, thought and consciousness and were originally introduced by a gentleman called Sydney Banks. And the real powerful thing about the principles for me especially with regard to relationships is that we are always feeling our thinking moment to moment and we’re not feeling our circumstances, we’re not feeling other people or their actions. We’re feeling our thinking about the circumstances, the people, the actions. Is there anything you’d like to add to that or…?

CHRISTINE:

I think that pretty much I think that pretty much sums up it just expands kind of what I was what we were talking before. You know we can make up this story that if we’re feeling angry or pissed off or what have you it’s coming from our partner’s actions and actually it’s coming from our own thinking and sometimes therefore it’s really useful simply to disengage and let things settle so that we can actually understand a scene more clearly, where our feelings are actually coming from. And not act them out inappropriately.

ANKUSH:

Yeah it’s quite interesting to me that someone actually said to me that a number of so-called relationship experts that have written all the books that are on the shelves… and I won’t name names because I don’t know them, but a number of experts on who write books have often not got a great track record in their own relationships.

And actually funnily enough there’s a couple of relationship experts who have been divorced from each other, and then gone on to write about how to have good marriages, and for me what’s been really quite interesting is the people that I’ve met who have been teaching around the three principles as a modality, whether they talk about relationships or not, they all tend to have fantastic relationships.

I mean people who met in their twenties who are now in their sixties who are just still madly in love with each other, and it’s funny because it’s so uncommon to see that. And before I just thought well that’s not possible or it’s unlikely, and now how it just, it kind of seems to be a theme with people who have been around this and taken this approach to relationship.

CHRISTINE:

I hadn’t spotted that before.

ANKUSH:

Yeah. Well I think that’s probably all we’ve got time for today but thank you for joining us on this call and if people want to get in contact with you what would be the best way for them to do that.

CHRISTINE:

Email me so it’s christine@livingstonconsulting.co.uk.

ANKUSH:

Thank you and if anyone wants to get in contact with me you can do so my website is www.ankushjain.co.uk And there’s a ‘contact me’ link over there. You can find me on Facebook which is probably where you’ve got this interview from and I’d be happy to talk to you. Thanks a lot for joining us Christine and I’ll speak to you guys on the next audio session.